Saturday, October 25, 2008

New Internet Discussion Board

This is a page from my new Internet Discussion board. I'm having a good time with it. It's so much quicker than having the students turn something, having me comment on it, and then turning it back to them. Feedback is near-instantaneous.

I'm using http://www.nicenet.org.

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FROM: Bmore Teach (10/22/08 5:39 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: Post your Puig thesis statements here
[Reply]

This assignment is due by Saturday at 8pm.

You must post yours and post 2 other comments on other people's. Comment on their validity and intrigue, and whether they are literary enough. I'll be commenting as well.

REPLIES (24): [ Hide Replies ]

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/22/08 5:50 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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This reading of the book, I was really intrigued by this idea of Appearance vs. Actuality. I noticed this throughout the text, and started marking "A vs. A" in the margin as I read.

As I'm thinking about it, I think I would write a paper with a thesis along these lines:

Shakespeare famously wrote that people are all players on a stage, and to an extent this is true; people perform throughout their lives, whether it is in their job, their relationships, or their social lives. In his novel Kiss of the Spider Woman, Manuel Puig develops this idea of lives as performance pieces by telling his story without a narrator, much like life. Puig utilizes his shifts of narrative structure, particularly his shifting from dialogue to official governmental reports, to juxtapose the idea of appearance versus actuality as presented in the novel. Paradoxically, Puig is equating life with an acting performance in order to expose that humans actually are performing to a rubric of who we think we are, not necessarily who we actually are.

So that would be my working introduction, I think. What do you all think? You may use it as a model.

Post yours with your intro, I think that's better.

* FROM: Student 1 (10/23/08 3:06 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 1]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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In the novel Kiss of the Spiderwoman, the author, Manuel Puig, illustrates a connection of manipulation which creates an understanding of what the characters are able to lose in their lives. This in terms shows how everyone can be influenced in some form through their wish to gain or hopes not to lose.

* FROM: Student 2 (10/23/08 5:11 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 2]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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The most manipulative character in the novel: In the novel, The Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Puig's characteristics in Luis Alberto Molina makes him the most manipulative character. An example of Molina being manipulative is how he almost always gets Valentin to step down from his pride and apologize for anytime he offended him. Overall this shows that certain personalities in an individual can have a critical impact on those surrounding them.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 5:19 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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Okay, everybody, reply to the initial message, not my thesis statement. Also, don't forget to respond to other people's.

In the novel Kiss of the Spiderwoman, the author, Manuel Puig, illustrates a connection of manipulation which creates an understanding of what the characters are able to lose in their lives. This in terms shows how everyone can be influenced in some form through their wish to gain or hopes not to lose.

D - There are some clarity issues here. What is "connection of manipulation"? It does not seem to be literary enough to write a paper about at this point - figure out what aspect of manipulation you want to write about. The larger implication seems okay, but I don't know how it's being achieved yet.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 5:21 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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The most manipulative character in the novel: In the novel, The Kiss Of The Spider Woman, Puig's characteristics in Luis Alberto Molina makes him the most manipulative character. An example of Molina being manipulative is how he almost always gets Valentin to step down from his pride and apologize for anytime he offended him. Overall this shows that certain personalities in an individual can have a critical impact on those surrounding them.

Who is Jainez Rodriguez? Please use your actual name so I can grade this assignment.

As for your thesis, make sure you realize that the device you are using is the manipulative character. Puig is characterizing Molina (no need to get all high-falutin' with his full government name) as manipulative in order to... . Then get into your larger implication.

As of now, it seems a little vague. I worry about this essay topic in the first place because I worry it's going to bring about too many plot-based essays. But it can be done.

* FROM: Student 3 (10/23/08 5:47 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 3]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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Everyone would like to escape from reality when times are rough. In the Kiss of The Spider Woman, Puig coveys Molina's need to escape from reality as juxtaposition which is shown from his parading fantasies within the classical movies that he tells Valentin. Molina only speaks of romantic movies; therefore from his focus in each movie his personality is shown. Thus, his personality, in oppostion of what people expect of males, is a factor of why he wants to escape from reality.

* FROM: Student 4 (10/23/08 5:58 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 4]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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i really want to write about the importance of the title but for right now until i get that approved this is my thesis statement
In the Kiss of the Spiderwoman by Manuel Puig, films are symbolized to convey how Molina and Valentin escape the pressures in their current lifestyles. In the real world humans telnd to find ways to release the stressors of everyday life.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 6:22 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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X:

Make sure you are focusing more on Puig - what Puig is doing with his narrative structure - rather than what Molina is doing/feeling.

Also, this is to everyone, it's a lot easier to reply off of the initial message rather than replying off of replies - that way, you can see the responses easier.

* FROM: Student 5 (10/23/08 6:49 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 5]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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im not sure what i want to do for i my thesis statement but i was thinking about something to with gender roles and sexuality i.e gay men being feminine and Valentin's shift in behavior and how be becomes less emotionally shut in and hostile as he develops feelings for Molina this is a very rough draft of my potential thesis and i would appreciate some feed back thx

* FROM: Student 6 (10/23/08 7:23 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 6]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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Everyone remembers a person for something. It could be their favorite color, a scent they have or a type of food. In Kiss of the Spider Woman by Manuel Puig the minor characters are represented through the food Molina and Valetin choose to eat and share. What people choose to eat is a reflection on influences of their past childhood friendships and relationships.

* FROM: Student 7 (10/23/08 7:23 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 7]
SUBJECT: homosexuality
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Homosexuals are normally rejected from society. In this, homosexuals, in most cases and in history, would be considered inferior. But puig enables Molina to be the stronger manipulator of the story. So:

Puig uses romantic imagery to depict the argumental nature of the relationship between sexuality and identity by expressing Molina as the main manipulator.By opposing the cliche of a homosexual, Puig creates the larger theme that.......(not sure)

Im pretty sure the device is too vague. my thoughts arent all the way together yet.

* FROM: Student 8 (10/23/08 8:33 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 8]
SUBJECT: RE: student 8's thesis statement
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In Manuel Puig's compelling novel The Kiss of the Spider Woman, he uses strong literary devices such as footnotes in coherence with the events of the novel to saturize the differences between the ideas of homosexuality and masculinity. This reveals that everyone in some way, shape, or form are homosexual, the true difference is whether or not you choose to embrace your destiny

* FROM: Student 9 (10/23/08 9:02 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 9]
SUBJECT: comment on student 8’s
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are footnote literary devices. if so i like your observation. your l.i is radical but im not sure if it fits.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 9:51 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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X: If you want to write about a shift in attitude about sexuality - perhaps a conflation of sexuality? - then this could be interesting. Get this more specific so we can work with it more. What exactly are you trying to say?

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 9:53 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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X:

Another food paper. Use the word "symbol" or "symbolize" in the thesis. Seems, as of now, a tough paper to write - the minor characters are represented by the food? I'm thinking you might discuss the waiter and the salad... what else? Remember, saying something is symbolic isn't the same as proving it. It could be interesting, but make sure you have enough there. The larger implication needs some work, doesn't seem very intriguing.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 9:56 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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X:

Your paper has potential but, you're right, the device of "romantic imagery" doesn't mean much. You know, your device could be that Puig characterizes Molina as stronger and more manipulative than his counterpart, and then lead into your other ideas.

Or, you may want to think about why you think Molina is more manipulative than Valentin. There are sure to be devices within the dialogue that you find to be more manipulative.

Of course, you need to work on the L.I.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 10:00 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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Student 8:

First off, don't praise the novel by calling it compelling. It just makes me think you're sucking up. "strong literary devices" sounds kind of BS as well. :)

As for your idea, it's certainly interesting. I don't think "coherence" is the word you are looking for. And you don't seem to have an immediate textual effect - you jump right to a larger implication, or two of them (the idea of satire and the idea that everyone is homosexual). Stay in the text and use that effect to prove an larger implication.

One interesting thing that your paper reminded me of is the idea that the characters' dialogue sort of conflates the two characters into one, making the masculine/macho/straight and the feminine/gay the same. I mean, there were probably plenty of times in the text where you confused the two characters, right?

* FROM: Student 10 (10/24/08 7:01 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 10]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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I really dont know what to write about, I want to do something with the use of elipses, I really like what they stand for ... and how they convey meaning. Its just I think they are powerfull in this book. I dont know, help?

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/24/08 8:23 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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Student 10:

Go through the text, and start to categorize the ellipses. One type of ellipses might suggest reflection, while other types of ellipses might suggest discomfort. How does Puig bring these different types of ellipses together, or juxtapose them off one another, and what kind of effect does it have on the meaning of the text?

This has lots of potential.

* FROM: Student 11 (10/24/08 10:16 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 11]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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In the Kiss Of the Spider woman by Manuel Puig. Puig use the motif of food to reveal comfort and acceptence. Puig uses verions stories where food was in one way or another a sight of confort. Puig is implying that people today still food to display emotion they wish not to share.

* FROM: Student 12 (10/24/08 10:17 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 12]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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X
I think tha your idea is very original. I could not have even gottent he right words together to say what you said. Sound like a good essay!

* FROM: Student 12 (10/24/08 10:20 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 12]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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X your thesis seems to be coming along. Are trying to say that Valentine is trapped and tortured by his feeling s for molina, because he does not know how to handle them, or does not want to admit to them?

* FROM: Student 11 (10/24/08 10:23 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 11]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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In the novel Kiss of the spider women, the author Manel Puig use framestories to forshadow the acual story. Each story reveal an event that is going to happen.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:08 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Post your Puig thesis statements here
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Student 10:

Your first thesis statement is okay... as you can see, a couple other people are also writing about food, and that's okay... make sure you have the word "symbolize" in there. The larger implication perhaps needs a little work.

Your second one is a little too vague. What events does it foreshadow? Also no larger implication.

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FROM: Student 13 (10/23/08 1:01 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 13]
SUBJECT: spider woman spiderwoman does what ever a spider woman does
[Reply]

Many people say a picture is worth a thousand words well a film must be worth more than a thousand words. In mauneil puigs kiss of the spiderwoman puig uses the motif of films to convey behavior this suggests that people can explain themselves and there meaning to life

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 5:23 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: spider woman spiderwoman does what ever a spider woman d
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X, trying to write about just films in this novel is too much. Choose an aspect of the films that seems to run through many of them. An obvious example might be strong heroines. "Convey behavior" is too broad - what about behavior? The L.I. is also a bit broad... work on narrowing your focus so you can delve deep into a topic.

* FROM: Student 7 (10/23/08 7:31 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 7]
SUBJECT: RE: spider woman spiderwoman does what ever a spider woman d
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you can tell your thoughts arent together. most of it is too vague. the L.I wouldnt make a good conclusion honestly.

i would think about how in each film the female is the weak and vulnerable character.....and with Molina wanting to be a female, you would think he would have a different interest. Also, he mentions how men are dogs, i think, so that should be supportive

* FROM: Student 14 (10/24/08 10:21 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 14]
SUBJECT: RE: spider woman spiderwoman does what ever a spider woman d
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I agree with Student 7. I feel that you shouldwrite about the correlation between the fact that the main characters are always women in each of these films, and how Molina wants to be a woman. Itotally nderstand where you are trying to go with your thesis statement though.

[p.s. watch your punctuation...i though it was a run on at first.]

* FROM: Student 13 (10/24/08 10:23 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 13]
SUBJECT: RE: once your stuck in a web you cant get out
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Spiders spin webs in areas where their prey lives in order to lure their prey into getting trapped in their web. In Puig's Kiss of the Spider Woman, Molina acts as a metaphorical spider, luring and trapping Valentin with his stories. Puig uses the motif of luring throughout the films he tells to make Valentin defenseless to whatever molina does. This suggests we are just like spiders we distract others in our web to get to our goal.

I NEED HELP WITH A LARGER IMPLICATION ANY SUGGETSIONS

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:43 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: spider woman spiderwoman does what ever a spider woman d
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Student 13,

Don't freak out about the larger implication right now. It will come. It's more important at this point to be looking for evidence and proving your effect.

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FROM: Student 12 (10/23/08 5:04 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 12]
SUBJECT: My thesis statement
[Reply]

I'm still trying to work out the kinks in this thesis. It's kinda hard for me to put this the way i want to say it.

Communion is a spiritual aspect that brings people together. In the kiss of the spider woman, Piug uses the meals and types of food incorporated into the novel as a symbol of the eventual realtionship that will unfold between the characters Molina and Valentin, creating the effect of what actually is going on between them before it happens. This creates the larger theme that certain foods givin in a certain way often reveals what type of person someone realy is.

It's still a little shaky , im gonna need some help organizing my thoughts..and it's very wordy. any idea how i cabn fix this?

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 5:26 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: My thesis statement
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So, you're basically saying that the food foreshadows their relationship? This is interesting, though seems kind of hard - your biggest weakness in your last essay was saying things were so without proving it, just thinking that saying it was enough. Be wary of that, without being afraid to tackle a tough topic.

As for this, the issue of communion in the hook seems lost in your actual thesis - it doesn't flow into the next sentence. The larger implicaton does not seem a natural outgrowth of your effect. Work with this more and more, it could work. Perhaps re-read the food chapter in Foster's text for some ideas.

* FROM: Student 4 (10/23/08 6:07 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 4]
SUBJECT: RE: My thesis statement
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are you implying that food shows personality?
i think your paper would be worth reading. you have a unique topic its something that i would not have thought about

* FROM: Student 7 (10/23/08 6:51 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 7]
SUBJECT: RE: My thesis statement
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i swear i had the same thoughts but i didnt understand whether food symbolized personality or the relationship. so im going to be very interested in the essay. also i love the wording of the L.I

* FROM: Student 15 (10/23/08 6:56 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 15]
SUBJECT: RE: My thesis statement
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This is a very interesting subject to talk about and you could give alot of evidence to support your thesis.

* FROM: Student 8 (10/23/08 8:38 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 8]
SUBJECT: RE: My thesis statement
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.. this sounds interesting... I think as of now your larger implication is the weakest part.. It might help if you add a sentence before it to kind of verify it a bit more... but I think you're off to a good start

* FROM: Student 14 (10/24/08 10:23 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 14]
SUBJECT: RE: My thesis statement
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Okay... so how does communion tie into your thesis statement? Are you insinuating that food is giving a hint to where Molina and Valentin relationship end up?

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FROM: ona (10/23/08 5:41 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to ona ]
SUBJECT: Do opposites really attract?
[Reply]

In the novel, The Kiss of the Spider Woman,Puig puts two strangers in a cell with pretty much nothing to talk about. However he uses the discussion of movies to distinguish each character and reveals their personalities. Thus showing that a friendship can form between two very different people.

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* FROM: Student 4 (10/23/08 6:05 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 4]
SUBJECT: RE: Do opposites really attract?
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your thesis statement really isnt a thesis statement. it lacks the components of oel. what you have posted is more of a hook or introduction for your thesis statement

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 6:23 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Do opposites really attract?
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X and X have it. You don't seem to have a device/author's technique here. Focus more on the choices that Puig is making and how it creates meaning.

* FROM: Student 8 (10/23/08 8:54 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 8]
SUBJECT: RE: Do opposites really attract?
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I agree with student 2... there definitely isn't an o at all... it is also kind of vague.. I think the concept you are hinting at can be thoroughly supported an make a good argument if done right. I think you should also work oon the l.i. because it doesnt concretely answer the "so what" question..

* FROM: Student 14 (10/24/08 10:18 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 14]
SUBJECT: RE: Do opposites really attract?
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i am definitely no expert on writing thesis statements, but i do agree withthe above statemnets. i understand what you are aiming for, but ther is really no format. [do you understand what i'm saying?]

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FROM: Student 4 (10/23/08 6:00 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 4]
SUBJECT: films
[Reply]

films is not the topic i would really like to discuss but until i get it approved this is my thesis statement:

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* FROM: Student 15 (10/23/08 6:59 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 15]
SUBJECT: RE: films
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What do you want to write about? Have you talked to Mr. Bmoreteach about it?

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FROM: Student 4 (10/23/08 6:04 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 4]
SUBJECT: films
[Reply]

this is not the topic that i would like to write about but until i get it approved by bmore teach this is my thesis statement:
In The Kiss of the Spiderwoman by Manuel Puig, films are symbolized to convey how Molina and Valentin escape the pressures of their current lifestyles. In the real world, humans tend to find a hobby that allows them to forget about the stressors of their everyday life.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 6:21 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: films
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Student 4 -

Was films a topic? The title is symbolic, so that is a topic. What do you want to write about with it?

* FROM: Student 15 (10/23/08 6:50 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 15]
SUBJECT: RE: films
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What are "stressors"? Do you mean "stresses"?

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FROM: Student 15 (10/23/08 6:47 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 15]
SUBJECT: My Thesis Statment
[Reply]

In the past, stories and legends have been shared by word of mouth. The stories that were shared were mostly fictional but had some truth in them. In Puig's novel, The Kiss of The Spiderwoman, Molina tells stories about the movies he had seen to Valentin which reveals a little more about him than before. Puig is trying to convey a kind of parallelism between Molina's life and the movies that he tells.

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* FROM: Student 7 (10/23/08 7:38 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 7]
SUBJECT: RE: My Thesis Statment
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Student 15, i dont see the L.I which is suppose to relate to real life. you have the relation tothe story. You also mention "conveying parallelism" but i can't tell if that's the device or just another point.

If you could get anymore specific, you can tell what aspect of molina's life and the movie because it sounds a little general

* FROM: Student 9 (10/23/08 9:05 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 9]
SUBJECT: RE: My Thesis Statment
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This is very vauge. what exactly does it reveal about him. how does this connect to the way that stories are told? needs work.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 10:02 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: My Thesis Statment
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Student 15,

I agree with both of the commenters. This could be a very good thesis, but, yes, what exactly does it reveal about Molina, and, secondly, what is the "so what?", the larger implication, to that effect?

Try another draft.

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FROM: Student 9 (10/23/08 8:54 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 9]
SUBJECT: tims thesis
[Reply]

There are many materials used to connect and stablize. one general material is thread. In the novel The Kiss of the Spider Woman Manuel Puig uses the motif of thread to convey the state of mind and level of composure or control of the situation in the characters. This shows that the threads of sanity can not stay strong for ever.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/23/08 9:49 PM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: tims thesis
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Tim, I noticed the thread/yarn motif this time through reading the text as well. It's a good topic. As of now, your effect is a bit wordy and your larger implication a bit wobbly. Keep working on it and I think it has great potential.

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FROM: Student 16 (10/24/08 5:02 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 16]
SUBJECT: Possible Thesis
[Reply]

Puig uses the metaphor of minor characters to symbolize the connenetion that Valentin and Molina have with the outside world..... Once I have said this I get confused

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/24/08 8:21 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE:
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This is a start, but I'm not seeing what they symbolize. "bringing happiness" is not an effect of a symbol. Get more specific and think about what your larger implication might be.

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FROM: Student 17 (10/24/08 9:43 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 17]
SUBJECT: Puig thesis statement.
[Reply]

Puig uses the juxtaposition of the protaganists behavior and their ideal of what a "real man" is. To show contradictions which the character must strugle with to gain integrity and self esteem(i need to work on this). Genderoles learned in childhood effect everyone no matter how radical a subvert one is.

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* FROM: Student 1 (10/24/08 9:48 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 1]
SUBJECT: RE: Puig thesis statement.
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In the novel Kiss of the Spiderwoman, the author, Manuel Puig, illustrates a connection of manipulation which creates an understanding of what the characters are able to lose in their lives. This in terms shows how everyone can be influenced in some form through their wish to gain or hopes not to lose.

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:11 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Puig thesis statement.
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Student 17:

The main issue is your wording right now. I see what you're trying to say, but the wording is device-free and vague. Work on it.

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FROM: Student 1 (10/24/08 9:50 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 1]
SUBJECT: My Thesis
[Reply]

In the novel Kiss of the Spiderwoman, the author, Manuel Puig, illustrates a connection of manipulation which creates an understanding of what the characters are able to lose in their lives. This in terms shows how everyone can be influenced in some form through their wish to gain or hopes not to lose.

REPLIES (1): [ Hide Replies ]

* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:13 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: My Thesis
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Student 1: You have some clarity issues. I keep reading it and wondering what you're trying to say. Pick a more concrete motif/symbol you can track to say what you want to say.

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FROM: Student 18 (10/24/08 9:52 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 18]
SUBJECT: My Thesis Statement
[Reply]

Black vs. light imagery.

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In Puig's novel, The Kiss Of The Spider Woman, imagery of darkness and light stands as a metaphor for the evil and good portryaed by charcters concerned. His descirption of settinbg and character traits are plagued by the theme of black versus white, showing his interest in the concept of a battle between malevolence and benevolence in all forms of media. The poinbt he is relating is how quick human nature is to jugde that which is not yet explained, and to frequently classify concepts as either good or evil.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:15 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: My Thesis Statement
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Student 18:

This is a strong thesis.

I worry that your second sentence might be too broad - descriptions of character traits as dark/light *and* setting? But, I'm not sure. Maybe your evidence is really specific and it will be effective that way. In either case, I'm intrigued and ready to read your paper.

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FROM: Student 19 (10/24/08 10:02 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 19]
SUBJECT: manipulations
[Reply]

In the novel, the Kiss of the Spider Woman, Puig uses manipulations to create a sense of trust and security to Valentin and Molina. Many times when people hurt each other then make up, it just makes the relationship between them stronger in the end.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:17 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: manipulations
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Student 19: "Manipulations" is not a literary device. Think about what creates that manipulative effect - it should almost certainly be the effect of your thesis, not the device. Maybe it's a type of dialogue that creates the manipulation? Or something else? Think about it.

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FROM: Student 20 (10/24/08 10:04 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 20]
SUBJECT: Potential thesis
[Reply]

I wanted to write about how Puig uses the minor characters in the book to symbolize a common ground between both Molina and Valentin, because the minor characters are a sacred part of their lives....BUT IdK..
Need help!!!

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:20 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Potential thesis
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Choose one minor character for each and see if you can come up with some interesting connections you can make between them. Perhaps something about gender roles - the idea of what a "real man" is vs. the idea of what a "real woman" is?

This topic has potential to be mundane and too concerned with the feelings of characters as if they were real people, but also the potential to be intriguing and literary. Make sure you are always focused on what Puig is doing, not what the characters are concerned about.

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FROM: Student 21 (10/24/08 10:07 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 21]
SUBJECT: Thesis Statement
[Reply]

In Manuel Puig's Kiss Of The Spiderwoman Puig uses characterization to portray the manipulators within the novel. I find this interesting because, Puig uses both the warden and Molina to get information about Valentin and his Comrads, while also breaking the characters away from themselves.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:22 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Thesis Statement
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Monyai: Your device is the minor character of the Warden, not characterization. This could work, but you don't seem to have a larger implication. Also could tend to get too plot-driven... make sure you are concerned with literary devices.

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FROM: Student 14 (10/24/08 10:13 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 14]
SUBJECT: Escaping From Your Troubles
[Reply]

To escape can be defined in many ways. The dictionary's definition of escape is to slip, or get away from confinement or restraint; to elude; or avoidance of reality. People usually want to escape from the troubles of their mind, body, and/or soul. In the novel, "Kiss of the Spider Woman", the author, Manuel Puig, uses a series of characterization techniques and types of imagery to illustrate how Molina and Valentin escape their troubles by listening and telling stories of previously viewed movies, which redefines the idea of escape.

[I know that this is a rough start, but please give me feedback. I feel that this is too wordy, and is lacking something...alot. I would greatly appreciate some comments. Thanks!]

**I'm slaowaiting for an approval from Bmore Teach!

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:25 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Escaping From Your Troubles
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A paper about escape is a good topic. Right now, your devices are too vague (characterization and types of imagery), and you need to focus more specifically on what is it that creates this idea of escape. Is it nautical imagery, for example? (This is just an example, I'm not sure if it'll work, but it seems to be a few of the films had boats/water in them.) Or, you could discuss the films as a narrative technique that brings about escape for the characters.

You'll want to revise your larger implication (redefine the idea of escape? what does that mean, exactly?), but worry first about the device and effect. This could be a good paper.

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FROM: Student 15 (10/24/08 10:21 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 15]
SUBJECT: My Improved Thesis Statement
[Reply]

In the past, stories and legends have been shared by word of mouth. The stories that were shared were mostly fictional but had some truth in them. Puig uses the motif of woman who fall in love and die in the movies which creates a sort of parallelism between Molina and the love struck women in the films he talks about with Valentin. This implicates the irony of love in this story because love is supposed to be happy and about life, but in this book if the woman fell in love, they died.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:28 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: My Improved Thesis Statement
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Student 15, this is a good idea. You are still way wordy, and the flow needs some work. For example, "movies" in that second sentence is uncontextualized... someone who has never read the book will have a real hard time with that sentence. And "implicates the irony of love"? What story is it? The novel? Why did you call it a book and not a novel later in that sentence?

Really get yourself in another mindset and read the paragraph again as if you were not the writer. This is a great idea that I don't want to be messed up by wordiness. Keep editing. Good job so far, though, this is definitely much better.

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FROM: Student 22 (10/24/08 10:23 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 22]
SUBJECT:
[Reply]

I am having difficulty writing a complete thesis statement (OEL format) but I have succefully chosen a topic. I would like to discuss Puig's use of foil characters to convey the idea of the split personalities of Molina, Valentin, and the characters within the films. For example:

- Meak and mild woman versus her inner Cat Woman

- Molina's masculinity versus femininty

- Molina's strong personality versus weak personality

- Valentin's masculinity versus femininty

- German woman's loyalty versus betrayal

- Witch doctor's old body versus young face

- Drunken husband versus sober husband

I will compose a full thesis statement by the deadline. Until then..this is it. IM THINKING! ; )

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:36 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE:
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Student 22: Good idea. I've cut and pasted some definitions that might help you. I'm not so sure, in looking at your evidence, that it's foils you want to discuss. Also, make sure your device is those characters in the films, and the effect is the revelation of character traits/split personalities with the two protagonists (M and V).

In fiction, an antithesis can be used to describe a character who presents the exact opposite as to personality type, moral outlook, etc. to another character in a particular piece of literature. This does not mean however, that they are necessarily in conflict with each other. Some examples of an antithesis in fiction include the characters of Locke and Jack in Lost (TV series), Dumbledore and Voldemort in Harry Potter, the doctor and Kino in The Pearl, and Théoden and Denethor in The Lord of the Rings.

A foil is a character that contrasts with another character, usually the protagonist, and so highlights various facets of the main character's personality. A foil usually has some important characteristics in common with the other character, such as, frequently, superficial traits or personal history. The author may use the foil to throw the character of the protagonist into sharper relief.

A foil's complementary role may be emphasized by physical contrasts. Dreamy and impractical Don Quixote is thin; realistic, practical Sancho Panza is fat. Sherlock Holmes is tall and lean; Doctor Watson, although at first, on his return from Afghanistan, described as lean, is later described as "middle-sized, strongly built."

In some cases, a subplot can be used as a foil to the main plot. This is especially true in the case of metafiction. One example of a plot being used as a foil can be seen in the graphic novel Watchmen, in which a comic book within the Watchmen universe presents a story similar to that of one of the main characters.

The "straight man" in a comedy duo is a comic foil. While the straight man portrays a reasonable and serious character, the other portrays a funny, dumb, or simply unorthodox one. The humor in these partnerships derives from the interactions between these drastically different personalities.

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FROM: Student 23 (10/24/08 10:23 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 23]
SUBJECT: Thesis statement
[Reply]

In Manuel Puig's Kiss Of The Spider Woman, the author uses stories to convey Molina as the manipulator by using the motif of beautiful women. In doing so, Puig shows how people use others to get what they want.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:39 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Thesis statement
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Student 23:

"Stories" is not a device. Look exactly what you think of as that causes the manipulation. Is it a type of imagery? A type of punctuation? A type of dialogue? A type of characters portrayed in the films? Manipulation should be the effect.

Your larger implication is too broad - maybe once you revise the earlier part of the thesis, this will become clearer to you.

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FROM: Student 24 (10/24/08 10:24 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Student 24]
SUBJECT: Student 24's thesis statement
[Reply]

On Halloween people walk around in costumes pretending to be some kind of character they are not. Sometimes these characters will be something very strong. But when that costume comes off we are finally able to see that weak person under the strong exterior. Mauel puig does something similar to this, by creating a charcter that is weak on the outside yet strong on the inside. In the novel, Kiss of the SpiderWoman,in the films told by Molina Puig uses the motif of internally strong women who have weak exteriors to depict the personilty that Molina possesed. This suggest that people are more than what is presented on the outside.


This is just an idea of what i want my thesis statement to be structured around. Please let me know what you think. Be harsh, i want the truth.

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* FROM: Bmore Teach (10/25/08 6:42 AM GMT -06:00) [ Send a personal message to Bmore Teach]
SUBJECT: RE: Student 24's thesis statement
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Student 24:

Somewhere in the description of the device, you should put that it's the "motif of internally strong women who have weak exteriors" as described in the narrative device of Molina's film-telling. The larger implication is dull - can you fit it into an irony or paradox, perhaps? (Yes, you can. Play with it.)

I like your idea a lot but the idea of mask/costuming doesn't strongly flow into your internal vs. exterior strength idea in your device. Stick with this idea but revise.

4 comments:

jackie said...

Thanks for this glimpse-- I have been thinking about discussion boards, and what would be effective ways to use them, and I had never thought about using them to workshop thesis statements. I especially like the the requirement for students to comment on each others' and add that peer review dynamic. How are you planning to grade them?

Teach Baltimore said...

As of now, with participation only. It's actually kind of hard to go through and count all the comments, but I'm going to do my best - or maybe have a student not in the class do it for extra credit...

Anonymous said...

Are you still trying to be anonymous on this blog? I don't know if anyone would read through this whole post, but I saw your name appear at least once, buried within the student comments.

Your Internet Anonymity Guardian Angel

Gerd Tepass said...

Maybe the blogg www.manuelpuig.blogspot.com
will interest you!
I posted some amazing interviews Puig made during 1968 and 1992. He was a complete GENIUS!
All these articles are part of the multimedia-biography: Manuel Puig: Una aproximación biográfica"
more info: www.manuelpuig.com
lots of saludos
Gerd